Episode 15 – Toddlers & Tiaras

 

This week’s discussion: Toddlers and Tiaras, Season 7, Eps. 1-5. Watch it on Hulu.

Next week’s discussion: Judge Faith, Season 2, Eps. 1-4, 7-10.  Watch it on Amazon Prime Video. Watch it on YouTube.

This week we tackled the infamous TLC show Toddlers & Tiaras.  JS begins with an apology to our listeners and declares it the worst show he’s ever seen, whereas Mike offers a somewhat qualified defense of the show (though definitely not the people – who are the worst).

After our recriminations and the usual recap of concept and structure, we delve into the show’s point-of-view and how it is reflected in its editing choices.  We also discuss the topics of beauty and gender standards, how these pageants sexualize minors, ritualistic nature of beauty pageant culture, the links between beauty pageantry and social conservatism, and the role of social class and economics.  Of course, we continually return to how troubling this is as well as finishing up with an exploration of whether this show has any redeeming social value or is merely wallowing in salaciousness.

Show Notes and Links

1:31 / Introducing this week’s show (with bonus apology from JS)

2:21 / JS thinks this is the worst show he’s ever seen

2:52 / Mike explains why he didn’t think this was the worst (although the people are); mentions Monica the Medium and Keys to the VIP

4:41 / The concept of the show

7:08 / This isn’t the first ‘rodeo’ for many of these families

8:08 / Talking about the exception: single dad at first pageant

9:28 / Covering the awards ceremony (and the ridiculous award names)

10:40 / These parents don’t accept second place

12:00 / Delving into the pageant judges and directors

14:15 / Segueing into the show’s point-of-view; Mike mentions Bridezillas

14:52 / The editing choices were revealing

16:41 / Money is a frequent topic

17:13 / The motif of bribing kids with sugar and caffeine

19:33 / Parsing the difference between disapproving of the parents and the pageant

20:36 / Mike was rubbed the wrong way by many of the judges’ comments

22:27 / Mike’s theory of why the pageant footage is edited differently

24:02 / Talking about the intended audience; see our Finding Bigfoot episode for our take on the decline of educational cable channels

25:09 / Show possibly geared towards mothers; contrasting the appeal of the show to Snooki and JWoww: Moms with Attitude

26:53 / How this show could potentially appeal to ‘pageant moms’

27:19 / Transitioning to a discussion on what this show says about beauty and gender standards

28:08 / The artificiality of the beauty standard was revealing

29:04 / The problematic message of adult beauty pageants is even more amplified when it involves children who cannot meaningfully consent

31:24 / The two objections to child beauty pageants: consent and sexualization

34:12 / The ritualistic aspects of child beauty pageantry; Mike makes a possibly melodramatic comparison to ‘female circumcision

36:17 / JS poses a question to Mike

37:38 / Coming back to traditionalist gender roles and the Southern regional aspect (Correction: one was also in California, but the larger point stands)

39:07 / The relationship between social conservatism and beauty pageant culture

41:45 / Talking about our (limited) experience with (adult) beauty pageants

43:24 / Discussing the role of social class and economics

44:40 / Mike noticed a positive correlation between wealth and winning

45:15 / JS begrudgingly gives the show his one kudos

46:06 / Returning to the vast amounts of money spent on the dresses

46:47 / Seems to be no real monetary return for these pageants

49:03 / Speculating (somewhat baselessly) into the economics of holding a beauty pageant

51:08 / We’d call it a con, but these parents seem to have no illusions of wealth

52:02 / Exploring the parents’ motivations: validation, living vicariously, and ‘winning’ (not ‘confidence’)

54:57 / Participation trophies are ‘ruining society’

55:45 / Does this show have social value or is it wallowing in titillation?

57:15 / JS thought the social value was held back by the fact that there are bigger problems in the world

59:40 / Mike wonders whether this dichotomy is so strict (Is there inherent tension between sensationalism and exposé?)

1:01:17 / Mike imagines the response to this show would depend on the viewer, which has disturbing implications

1:01:55 / Mike found the show both more interesting and more depressing than he expected, even if it wasn’t Edward R. Murrow; thought the show would be light-hearted camp

1:02:53 / Comparing this show to America’s Next Most Smartest Model and America’s Next Top Model; JS found how it puts children into an adult setting objectionable

1:05:12 / Announcing the next episode (You can refresh yourself on our Divorce Court episode here)

1:08:50 / The usual: email us, rate/review, and subscribe

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Episode 14 – Snooki and JWoww: Moms with Attitude

 

This week’s discussion: Snooki and JWoww: Moms with Attitude, Season 1, Eps. 1-12, 39-40. Watch it on Amazon Prime Video.

Next week’s discussion: Toddlers and Tiaras, Season 7, Eps. 1-5. Watch it on Hulu.

Our Listener’s Choice poll results are in and we listened to the masses (all two of them) who decided they wanted us to watch the Jersey Shore spin-off Snooki and JWoww: Moms with Attitude, a webseries that originally appeared over the go90 streaming service.

We begin by discussing the show’s interesting ‘YouTube’ style form factor and whether it worked for us.  Then we segue into the show’s relationship with its famous progenitor and how the personas of the two hosts has evolved, linking that evolution to broader themes of aging and maturity.  We also talk about the show’s interesting blend of traditional domesticity with an MTV ‘edge’ as well as its relationship to its target demographic of ‘millennial moms’ and how its themes of parenthood and family life connected with us.  Additionally, we discuss issues of social class and praise the show’s minimalist production and apparent unvarnished nature, linking it to earlier discussions of the appeal of authenticity in reality television.

Show Notes and Links

1:30 / Introducing this week’s show

2:46 / Our experiences with Jersey Shore

4:20 / Talking about the history behind the show (Mike mentions the MTV Snooki and JWoww and go90)

6:32 / The concept and different episode types

8:52 / Talking about the show’s form factor

10:47 / Mike compares show to the ‘YouTuber’ phenomenon

11:46 / Discussing the minimalistic production (Article about the webseries that Mike mentioned)

13:49 / Returning to the form factor (Our Monica the Medium episode is here)

15:37 / Segueing to the target demographic for the show (Awestruck Entertainment; the JWoww and Roger webseries)

17:22 / Talking about the show’s aesthetic (‘not a mothering show for your mother’)

18:52 / Our view of the hosts and their evolution since Jersey Shore

21:55 / Discussing whether you should curse in front of your kids

23:01 / Coming back to the hosts and how they’ve changed since Jersey Shore

24:46 / This show’s relation to the previous one; acknowledgement mixed with distance

25:45 / Mike tries to explain Jersey Shore’s relationship to other reality shows to JS (We mention TOWIE and The Real World; Snooki’s arrest)

27:45 / How this show is indicative of shifting depictions of millennials as they age and settle down

29:02 / Why Mike thinks the perennial complaint of ‘kids these days’ is misguided

30:15 / Show also chronicles the cultural shifts around parenting that have occurred as millennials have become parents

30:44 / The show was stronger because they didn’t try to rehash Jersey Shore and showed the maturity and change of the hosts

32:36 / Briefly touching on the affluent lifestyle depicted in the show

33:35 / Does this show connect with fathers as well as mothers?

35:45 / Discussing the show as a ‘feminine’ space and how its views on gender roles and domesticity are actually surprisingly traditional

37:50 / The ‘non-traditional’ nature of the hosts made the show interesting

38:28 / Mike appreciated the depiction of family life, which managed to be a nice portrait that didn’t feel like a Hallmark card

39:12 / Segueing into the authentic nature of the show (We mention the ‘Facebook wall phenomenon’)

41:03 / Mike’s nostalgia for the characters, returns to idea of reality TV as ‘hanging out’ (our Keys episode is here, NYT profile of Snooki during her Jersey Shore days)

41:57 / JS appreciated the lack of product placement and their honesty in their product reviews

43:07 / Returning to the topic of social class and its relation to the show’s target demographic

46:17 / Closing with discussion of the appealing nature of the show’s authenticity

49:01 / The fact that this wasn’t done by a huge MTV production crew made the show feel more authentic and less produced

50:25 / Introducing the next show

52:08 / Announcements: contact us, rate and review us, and subscribe (Also, we have a Facebook page that Mike forgot to mention)